PN642

THE COMMISSIONER: Good morning. I will take appearances, please.

PN643

MR M ROBSON: May it please, Robson, initial M, for United Voice.

PN644

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Robson.

PN645

MS J ZADEL: If the Commission pleases, Zadel, initial J, for the Australian Federation of Employers and Industries.

PN646

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Zadel.

PN647

MR M ROUCEK: If it please the Commission, Roucek, initial M, appearing for Australian Childcare Alliance and Australian Business Industrial NSW Business Chamber, and today I have with me Nesha Hutchinson from the Australian Childcare Alliance.

PN648

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Roucek. I'm sorry, the name of the person with you is Ms - - -?

PN649

MR ROUCEK: Nesha Hutchinson.

PN650

THE COMMISSIONER: Will Ms Hutchinson be appearing? No?

PN651

MR ROUCEK: No, She's just here today to observe.

PN652

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN653

MR J GUNN: If the Commission pleases, Gunn, initial J, for Community Connections Solutions Australia - CCSA.

PN654

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Gunn. And we have someone in Adelaide?

PN655

MR W TURNER: If it please the Commission, Turner, initial W, for the Department of Education and Child Development, and I have with me Ms Haynes, initial R.

PN656

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Turner. Thank you. This is a conference, a continuation of a series of conferences that have been before me regarding technical and drafting in the Children's Services Award. I intend to proceed on the basis of the summary of submissions, technical and drafting that was circulated by the AMOD team on 19 April that I'm hoping the parties are all familiar with. I intend to go through the items one by one to confirm each of the parties, either confirmation that what's been reported is accurate, and if not, to see if the matters that are still in dispute can be further narrowed between the parties. Once that's done, I understand that there is also the substantive issues paper. Hello? Yes?

PN657

POLICE WOMAN: Hello. Sorry.

PN658

THE COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry, I'm not sure who that is, but Mr Turner, are you there?

PN659

POLICE WOMAN: I'm sorry, it's the police. We've just been called for an alarm.

PN660

THE COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry, where are you based?

PN661

POLICE WOMAN: We're in Eagle Street.

PN662

THE COMMISSIONER: In Brisbane?

PN663

POLICE WOMAN: There's been an alarm for this area, but there doesn't appear to be anyone here.

PN664

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. I believe that there are no parties at this stage in the Brisbane Commission. The court room was open in the event that parties wished to participate in today's conference.

PN665

POLICE WOMAN: (Indistinct).

PN666

THE COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry?

PN667

POLICE WOMAN: So there's not going to be anyone in this - - -

PN668

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, at this stage it appears there's no one there, but it's been left open in the event that someone wishes to actually attend.

PN669

POLICE WOMAN: Okay.

PN670

THE COMMISSIONER: I'm assuming that given that no one's there yet that they're not attending.

PN671

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: Sorry, I am going to.

PN672

POLICE WOMAN: Somebody's here.

PN673

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: Yes, sorry. (Indistinct).

PN674

POLICE WOMAN: Okay, we will leave the alarm; everybody's okay. Have a good day.

PN675

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, you too. Goodbye. I'm not sure who that is there now. Is there someone in the Brisbane court room?

PN676

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: Yes, apologies, Commissioner. I'll just close the door. I'm not too sure what's happened with the duress alarm, but there's no one here but me today for today's matter.

PN677

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you so much. You're actually - - -?

PN678

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: Yes, still relief associate.

PN679

THE COMMISSIONER: I see, all right.

PN680

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: I apologise for the interruption. I'm not too sure what's happened there.

PN681

THE COMMISSIONER: Not a problem. The reason I believe we've asked for the court room to be open is that if someone from Brisbane wished to attend they could. Given that they're not there yet I'm assuming they won't, but that's why it's - - -

PN682

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: Yes, I haven't seen anyone arrive downstairs, so yes, I'm not too sure what's happened with the alarm. I apologise sincerely for that, Commissioner. I'm sorry.

PN683

THE COMMISSIONER: Not a problem. You will leave now, thank you.

PN684

THE RELIEF ASSOCIATE: Thank you.

PN685

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, that's the excitement for the morning. There's no one then in terms of appearances, and we'll go back to the revised summary of submissions, technical and drafting that I was referring to. There is the substantive matters summary that is not part of this conference, so is that the parties' understanding that that's what's taking place (indistinct). When we're going through the items, if you wouldn't mind identifying yourself by name and the organisation just for the record. It makes it easier for the matter to be transcribed. Thank you. Is there anything anyone needs to say on the record before we proceed? Mr Turner, you're happy with that process?

PN686

MR TURNER: Thank you, Commissioner, yes.

PN687

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 1 has been agreed, if the parties can just confirm that, please?

PN688

MR ROBSON: Robson for United Voice, we agree.

PN689

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI, we agree.

PN690

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, we also agree.

PN691

MR GUNN: Gunn for CCSA, we agree, Commissioner.

PN692

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, we agree.

PN693

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 2 has been agreed?

PN694

MR ROBSON: Robson for United Voice, yes, we agree.

PN695

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI, we agree.

PN696

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, we also agree.

PN697

MR GUNN: Gunn for CCSA, we agree.

PN698

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, we agree.

PN699

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 3?

PN700

MR ROBSON: Yes, that's agreed.

PN701

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI, that's agreed.

PN702

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, we understand that's been agreed as well.

PN703

MR GUNN: Gunn for CCSA, agreed.

PN704

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, agreed.

PN705

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 4?

PN706

MR ROBSON: Robson for United Voice, that's agreed.

PN707

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI, that is agreed.

PN708

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, it is agreed.

PN709

MR GUNN: Gunn for CCSA, agreed.

PN710

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, agreed.

PN711

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 5?

PN712

MR ROBSON: Robson for United Voice. We understand that's been resolved by the updated exposure draft from 6 January and that's correct.

PN713

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Robson.

PN714

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI. We also understand that matter has been resolved.

PN715

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber. It is our understanding that that item has been agreed.

PN716

MR GUNN: Gunn, CCSA, agreed.

PN717

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, agreed.

PN718

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 6 is not being pressed by United Voice, Mr Robson?

PN719

MR ROBSON: Yes, United Voice isn't pressing that (indistinct).

PN720

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 7, that's been - according to the substantive issues list, is that still the case?

PN721

MR ROBSON: Yes, that's correct. That's a substantive matter.

PN722

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 8, agreed?

PN723

MR ROUCEK: It's Roucek for ABI, ABI and NSW Business Chamber. It's our understanding that this proposal by AiG has been agreed, although AiG is not here today.

PN724

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 9?

PN725

MR ROBSON: Robson for United Voice. This hasn't been agreed. I think the position that we came to with AiG at the last conference was that this matter should be dealt with on the papers, but they're not here to confirm that today. Perhaps the best way to deal with this is for the Commission to write to AiG to request if they want to make any further submission on this matter. Certainly, United Voice doesn't think that there is any value to further discussions, that we'd be happy to deal with this by a submission.

PN726

THE COMMISSIONER: So this is a matter, Mr Robson, that was put forward by AiG at the first instance that United Voice opposes, I take it?

PN727

MR ROBSON: Yes, that's correct, and it has to do with the calculation of the casual rate and its interaction with the ordinary rate.

PN728

THE COMMISSIONER: And there's a Full Bench dealing with those matters, is there not?

PN729

MR ROBSON: A Full Bench has identified the principles which would be applied in dealing with this issue; however, I understand that there's no Full Bench dealing with this issue currently.

PN730

THE COMMISSIONER: So the mechanisms in terms of how this matter will be looked at have been dealt with by the Full Bench?

PN731

MR ROBSON: Yes.

PN732

THE COMMISSIONER: And you're still opposing, and you would welcome a position in writing from AiG, is that - - -?

PN733

MR ROBSON: Yes, I think so.

PN734

THE COMMISSIONER: That would assist?

PN735

MR ROBSON: They've said that they rely on their initial submissions on this matter. We have filed submissions opposing that. I'm not sure how they would want to take this issue further considering that was still in dispute.

PN736

THE COMMISSIONER: Given that you're in dispute, isn't it for you to perhaps - I'm just not sure what the benefit of a further submission from AiG would necessarily be, unless you perhaps articulate what it is that you benefit from further in terms of your opposition.

PN737

MR ROBSON: I suppose we have done so. I'm only saying this out of fairness to a party that isn't present. I'm not sure what their intentions are in this case.

PN738

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. So perhaps the best thing then, if that's the way you put it - and I'm not suggesting that that's not the way it is for a minute - is for the update to record that the matter's still in dispute, as far as United Voice is concerned. Given that AiG is not here today though that the AMOD team will write to AiG asking the AiG to confirm what their position is in writing. That then can be circulated to the parties in the interests of fairness and process. Once that's done, then the parties would be asked to advise whether or not - the parties being you - - -

PN739

MR ROBSON: Yes.

PN740

THE COMMISSIONER: - - - and fundamentally AiG at this stage - whether or not you wish the matter to be dealt with on the papers or how you saw that's dealt with.

PN741

MR ROBSON: Yes.

PN742

THE COMMISSIONER: Is that - - -?

PN743

MR ROBSON: May it please.

PN744

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Are the other parties happy for that to happen? If you wouldn't mind just saying yes or no or - - -?

PN745

MS ZADEL: Ms Zadel for AFEI, AFEI is agreeable to taking that course.

PN746

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN747

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, and we would agree with that proposed course too.

PN748

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN749

MR GUNN: Gunn for CCSA. We agree with the proposed course.

PN750

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Gunn.

PN751

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, we're happy with that.

PN752

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 10, that's a matter that was originally pressed, I believe, by Business SA, and you, Ms Zadel, is that the position, in that that's no longer at least being pressed by you?

PN753

MS ZADEL: My understanding is that it's no longer being pressed from the last conference.

PN754

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Turner, you don't have any issue with that item?

PN755

MR TURNER: No, Commissioner.

PN756

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 10A, it has been moved to the substantive issues list, is that - - -?

PN757

MR ROUCEK: Yes, Commissioner. It's Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber. I understand that's been moved to substantive.

PN758

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 11 has been withdrawn? Mr Robson, is that a matter that you're still pressing?

PN759

MR ROBSON: No, we're not still pressing that.

PN760

THE COMMISSIONER: So item 11 has been withdrawn then - to that extent it's been dealt with?

PN761

MR ROBSON: Yes. Thank you, Commissioner.

PN762

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 12?

PN763

MR TURNER: Thank you, Commissioner. Turner, DECD. DECD no longer wishes to press that submission.

PN764

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 13 has been agreed?

PN765

MR ROBSON: Robson for United Voice, yes.

PN766

MS ZADEL: Ms Zadel from AFEI, yes, we agree.

PN767

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber. I understand that matter has been agreed.

PN768

MR GUNN: Gunn for CCSA, agreed.

PN769

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, agreed.

PN770

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 14 has been withdrawn. That's the parties' understanding?

PN771

MR ROBSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN772

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 15, withdrawn.

PN773

MR ROBSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN774

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 16?

PN775

MR TURNER: Thank you, Commissioner - Turner, DECD. DECD wishes to withdraw that matter.

PN776

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 17, agreed. If the parties could just confirm that that's their understanding?

PN777

MR ROBSON: Yes, we understand that's been agreed. I think it may be the AMOD response that we may want to consider, but I think that it is as agreed.

PN778

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI, that's our understanding as well.

PN779

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, that accords with our understanding.

PN780

MR GUNN: Gunn, CCSA, agreed.

PN781

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, agreed.

PN782

THE COMMISSIONER: 17A and 17B have been agreed?

PN783

MR ROBSON: Yes, those are agreed.

PN784

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN785

MS ZADEL: Zadel for AFEI, it's our understanding that those are agreed.

PN786

MR ROUCEK: Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber, those matters are agreed.

PN787

MR GUNN: Gunn, CCSA, agreed.

PN788

MR TURNER: Turner, DECD, agreed.

PN789

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 18?

PN790

MR ROUCEK: Commissioner, it's Roucek for ACA, ABI and NSW Business Chamber. That matter has now been withdrawn.

PN791

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. That concludes the revised summary of submissions, technical and drafting. There are no matters outstanding. Is there anything - - -?

PN792

MR ROBSON: Item 9, subject to AiG's response to the Commission's correspondence.

PN793

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN794

MR ROBSON: That would be the only one.

PN795

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, that's the other one. Once the response is received then that will either be determined on the papers or via a further hearing, and that then concludes this aspect of this award. Is there anything else the parties need to say for the record? Mr Turner?

PN796

MR TURNER: Thank you, Commissioner; we're fine.

PN797

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. I will adjourn.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.27 AM]