PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Murphy, you're appearing for the applicant. Can you just clarify who that is?

PN2

MR J MURPHY: Sorry, your Honour; you were cut off for a second there.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Sorry, Mr Murphy; I'm here. You're appearing for the applicant?

PN4

MR MURPHY: Yes, I am, your Honour. I am appearing today for the Real Estate Employers' Federation and the Real Estate Employers' Federation of South Australia and Northern Territory.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Mr Clarke, you're appearing for the Real Estate Sales Persons' Association of South Australia?

PN6

MR R CLARKE: Correct, your Honour.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I take it you haven't retired yet.

PN8

MR CLARKE: Not yet, sir.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Fox, are you with the same organisation, Mr Fox?

PN10

MR N FOX: Yes, I am, your Honour.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr French, you're appearing for the Australian Property Services Association?

PN12

MR T FRENCH: That's correct, Vice President; I'm the secretary of that branch and representing APSA.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Mr Murphy, the first thing I want to do is get from you some understanding of how urgently you want this thing heard of you're in a position to have it heard. Can I indicate that to the extent that an actual hearing would be necessary - and you may say it can be dealt with on the papers - it can be dealt with on 6 or 7 May.

PN14

MR MURPHY: Right - your Honour, I might say it is not a matter that has the urgency of the other Covid-19-related matters that the Commission has been dealing with. It is a matter that we can take some time with, given the nature of the application and the orders being sought, the determination that's being sought. In fact, it could be dealt with way out, quite some time, but obviously we'd like to deal with it sooner rather than later. But you are right, there is a lack of urgency with this matter and I think my friends are in agreement with me about that. The parties are still in discussions about reaching a consent position, which would be very helpful, I think, to the Commission and the process and in discussions with my friends this morning and between the parties.

PN15

We anticipate if we could have another couple of weeks to talk about the finer issues that we're discussing at the moment in relation to the determination, in an attempt to reach a consent position, it may be a case at that point which we could in fact have the matter dealt with on the papers.

PN16

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Mr Clarke.

PN17

MR CLARKE: Your Honour, yes, I have been in regular contact with Brian Wilcox from REEF and another couple of weeks to try and massage the matters may be productive in the long run, sir. There are obviously certain difficulties between the parties but I think there is a fair amount of good will on both sides so we may well be able to reach some sort of an agreement.

PN18

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr French, Mr Fox; do you want to add anything?

PN19

MR FRENCH: Tom French, Vice President - we'll deal directly with Mr Clarke as he is the voice of APSA at this stage.

PN20

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Mr Murphy, to the extent discussions occur, because there is a sort of fragmentation of this industry in terms of representation, have you been having discussions with any other bodies not present today?

PN21

MR MURPHY: No, your Honour.

PN22

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I'm concerned, for example, from memory with the four-yearly review here in I think a Western Australian - separate Western Australian body. Are you representing them?

PN23

MR MURPHY: No, your Honour. I'm instructed that they're aware of the application. I anticipate they may have dropped in on the call today but haven't done that. What we could do is provide your Honour with an undertaking to reach out to them and get some sort of a formal response from them so that we can table that or have them at least take part in the next conference, if there is to be one, in a couple of weeks' time.

PN24

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Can I just ask a question about the substance of the agitation? Is this the position, that all the views of commission-only sales people would be entirely postponed until October next year? Is that the substance of it?

PN25

MR MURPHY: Yes, that is the substance of it. I think that is the effect of it. The technical nature is that, of course, we move the part-nominated date of 2 April out to 1 October this year so that the assessment year is October to the end of September the following year and so that will have the effect of picking up a whole range of people who have their assessments done at or after 2 April this year. So it covers the six-month period that we're all concerned about.

PN26

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I suppose the interesting question is that there may be people whose reviews are falling due as we speak, who may be thrown off the system because of recent events.

PN27

MR MURPHY: That's right. What I might do is have a look at that. I'm standing in today for Mr Ward, so I've only picked this up last night.

PN28

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN29

MR MURPHY: I haven't turned my mind to that but it is an important point, your Honour, so thank you for raising it. We will obviously talk to Mr Clarke and Mr Fox about that as well. I think we can - if there needs to be a provision built into that we can build the provision in as well. There might be a need for us to file an amended draft determination.

PN30

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I'm only think out aloud but one alternative might be that at least for reviews which are immediately about to occur, that on a date which you might nominate as the start of the crisis that's to be excluded for the purpose of any reviews which are about to occur and the annual amount is to be adjusted accordingly so that reviews can go ahead. But that won't be including the period after the drop-off, which won't distort the outcome. Anyway, that's something it's not a bad idea to be thinking about.

PN31

What I'm inclined to do at this stage is reserve a date. I'll advise the parties, probably on 7 May, for either a report back, a conference or a hearing and I'll ask the parties to advise me in a weeks' time as to the state of play and how they wish the matter to be further progressed.

PN32

MR MURPHY: Thank you.

PN33

THE VICE PRESIDENT: If the parties do decide there is more (indistinct) to this then we can do a hearing on 7 May. If the parties want the assistance of the Commission we can have a conference. If the parties still think it's not all that urgent, they can do a report back on that date and the matter can be stood over to a further date to be fixed. So that would require, Mr Murphy, for you to send written correspondence to my chambers on or before 23 April - - -

PN34

MR MURPHY: Yes, your Honour.

PN35

THE VICE PRESIDENT: - - - as to the state of play.

PN36

MR MURPHY: Thank you, your Honour; I've noted that.

PN37

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Obviously if something urgent arises, the parties can just request my chambers to have the matter relisted at short notice.

PN38

MR MURPHY: Absolutely.

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Is there anything further?

PN40

MR CLARKE: Your Honour, just going back to the point you raised about people who may be undertaking a review now - - -

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN42

MR CLARKE: - - - of course, that's for the preceding 12 months and the severe disruption to the real estate industry occurred around the end of March so - - -

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Let's say, for example, your review is due on 6 May. For somebody who's already a bit close to the borderline - - -

PN44

MR CLARKE: Yes.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: - - - you know, eight weeks where something has gone haywire might push them below the circumstances where they might otherwise have scraped in so that might be the urgent circumstance. I'll obviously defer to your greater knowledge of the industry.

PN46

MR CLARKE: (Indistinct), your Honour.

PN47

THE VICE PRESIDENT: If there is nothing further, I will now adjourn. I thank you for your attendance.

ADJOURNED TO A DATE TO BE FIXED [11.09 AM]